From: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Feb 19 2003 - 06:11:53 EST
Looking for trunked radio information?
Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
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There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Newone here!!
From: "mani40b <mavericks40@sympatico.ca>" <mavericks40@sympatico.ca>
2. Re: Newone here!!
From: "Len G. Carpenter" <Len.C@sympatico.ca>
3. Re: Brantford
From: "jefflong99 <chopper9@mobile.rogers.com>" <chopper9@mobile.rogers.com>
4. Opto Scout
From: "Steve St. Denis" <steve.st@sympatico.ca>
5. Re: Opto Scout
From: Michael Fenech <mfenech@sympatico.ca>
6. For you railroad monitors...
From: "Greg Kulin" <gkulin@everreddy.com>
7. Re: For you railroad monitors...
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
8. Re: Opto Scout
From: "radio" <radio@slakeyourthirst.com>
9. Re: Opto Scout
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
10. RE: Re: Brantford
From: "Bob Lyle" <bob_lyle@sympatico.ca>
11. Re: Brantford
From: "dave_scan1 <dharris@playground.net>" <dharris@playground.net>
12. Re: Brantford
From: Steve Jones <s.jones@rogers.com>
13. Re: Brantford
From: "Terry Green" <ve3nsv@rogers.com>
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 03:02:23 -0000
From: "mani40b <mavericks40@sympatico.ca>" <mavericks40@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Newone here!!
What is the diferance of UNIDEN scanners: bc785d & bc250d?
I`m looking to buy a scanner.
Thanks
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:49:06 -0500
From: "Len G. Carpenter" <Len.C@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Newone here!!
Ones a Base and ones a Handheld?
"mani40b " wrote:
> What is the diferance of UNIDEN scanners: bc785d & bc250d?
> I`m looking to buy a scanner.
>
> Thanks
>
> Looking for trunked radio information?
> Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:22:56 -0000
From: "jefflong99 <chopper9@mobile.rogers.com>" <chopper9@mobile.rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Brantford
Strange thing happening, it seems
> every time dispatch keys up or releases PTT, radio Id 0AFA keys
right away.
> Makes seeing radio IDs nearly impossible, but the odd one gets
through.
I've seen that a lot with fire departments. Firemen (politically
incorrect I know) have a problem with jumping in too quickly on
transmissions, a habit from the VHF days. I've been monitoring the
new expanded Durham system and Oshawa fire, even though they've been
trunked for years, still tromp on the dispatch almost cutting off the
last word. Not to mention the radio ID stays as dispatch.
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:30:25 -0500
From: "Steve St. Denis" <steve.st@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Opto Scout
Can some one give me some info, when I leave my Opto Scout on and sitting on the window sill it keeps locking onto frequencies in the 99.000 mhz band. Can some one tell me what this band is. I only have my duckie antenna on the Scout. ??
Steve
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:44:35 -0500
From: Michael Fenech <mfenech@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Opto Scout
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 09:30 AM, Steve St. Denis wrote:
> Can some one give me some info, when I leave my Opto Scout on and
> sitting on the window sill it keeps locking onto frequencies in the
> 99.000 mhz band. Can some one tell me what this band is.
Well, you've found a band whose stations cause a great amount of
interference for some scanner owners. These stations transmit
continuously, use insanely high amounts of power (up to 100,000 watts)
and use wideband FM. Most of what these stations transmit is nonsense
and not worth listening to. Yes, Steve, you've stumbled across the FM
broadcast band.
--
Michael Fenech
Toronto, Ontario
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:53:53 -0500
From: "Greg Kulin" <gkulin@everreddy.com>
Subject: For you railroad monitors...
UP RR to go Project 25 Digital Union Pacific Railroad owns and operates a
conventional radio system that covers the 25 western states of the U.S. This
high-tech rail carrier utilizes not only two-way radio, but also wireless
data and 9,000 miles of fiber optic cables to support its highly
sophisticated operations. From the railroad's centralized dispatch center
for train operations, between 700 and 800 trains are dispatched daily to
points throughout the western half of the U.S. Its conventional radio system
has expanded steadily over the years to more than 3,700 base stations,
17,000 portable radios, 4,3000 locomotive radios and several thousand mobile
radios. Now, Union Pacific is preparing to take a major step forward with
plans to ultimately migrate the majority of its system from analog to
digital technology. The new system will be based on the APCO Project 25
digital standard and will primarily operate as a conventional system with
trunking utilized in some high congestion areas. The company expects the
migration process to take five to seven years before a significant portion
of the railroad would be converted to the new digital system. Ed Kemp,
General Director for Information Technologies at Union Pacific, spelled out
the company's migration plan. "We will implement the new digital style base
station that is capable of receiving the analog signal and install the new
base stations in our major hubs and locations," Kemp says. "The point is to
operate in the analog mode until we have enough disbursement of the new type
of portables and mobiles out there where they can operate 100 percent
digital, at which time we would turn that site over to a digital format."
The first areas to be migrated would be the beginning and end points of the
rail lines, which typically are located in busier urban areas. However, the
low usage stretches in between the major terminals will remain analog until
there is a need for a digital system. "That's the advantage of a
conventional system. We can communicate over both analog and digital systems
to provide the most cost-effective solution to our business," says Kemp. The
data capabilities of the new digital system should help convince the company
to allocate the capital necessary to fund the system. Kemp points out that
data will provide vital information to improve the safety and operating
efficiency of the railroad. Union Pacific has some 4,000 locomotives in
service, each one valued at an average of about $1.5 - 2 million. That adds
up to over $6 billion in assets that are moving around the U.S. at any given
time, which makes asset utilization especially important. Data offers the
opportunity to ultimately provide a wide range of information about the
current condition of each locomotive and send that information directly back
to the central database. Fuel monitoring is also a critical issue for the
railroad since it spends about $1 million a day on diesel fuel. The
objective is to improve the entire fuel management process and take
advantage of lower fuel purchase prices and storage costs. With new devices
to monitor the fuel levels at different stops, the data system eventually
can be used to help schedule refueling stops more efficiently. "I'm
confident that once the operating department sees what we can do, money will
be allocated so we can start implementing base stations even in outlying
areas where spectrum efficiency really isn't an issue," says Kemp. Benefits
of APCO Project 25 as Possible Industry Standard One reason Kemp is
anticipating the migration process is that APCO's Project 25 is setting a
uniform standard for digital two-way radio. Although Project 25 is largely a
public safety initiative, Union Pacific and other railroads have been
actively involved in the process. Kemp is optimistic that railroad companies
will soon vote to adopt Project 25 as the industry standard for voice and
data. "The needs for public safety and the railroads are very similar," Kemp
says. "The railroad industry has the largest private police force in the
country, Railroads do a tremendous amount of work with state and federal law
enforcement organizations." Key issues, such as multiple sourcing and
interoperability, affect railroads as much as they affect public safety
agencies. After all, a train that travels across country could use tracks
belonging to several different railroads. Until Project 25, Kemp says,
interoperability in the railroad industry has unfortunately created a
"lowest common denominator" form of communications. "We still use carrier
squelch, for example," he says. "So it was a perfect match to be aligned
with this new set of standards and the FCC requirements for narrowband (12.5
kHz) operation." Not surprisingly, Kemp stresses that Union Pacific's
planned digital system will be Project 25 compliant. He's also anticipating
the many new benefits of digital technology, such as consistent audio
quality, integrated voice and data, embedded signaling for unit ID, enhanced
encryption, data port and more. Conventional Radio Remains Ideal for
Railroads Kemp emphasizes that conventional two-way radio technology always
has been and always will be vital to Union Pacific's communications. A good
example of how Union Pacific employs conventional technology can be found in
its yard operations. "For us, it lets the ground person talk to the engineer
directly without needing an infrastructure, without needing even a repeater,
so he or she can help that engineer shove a boxcar into a siding and tell
the engineer when to stop," Kemp says. "The simple fact of having
conventional systems provides us with very local person-to-person
communications." Kemp points out that the railroad's conventional systems
plays an important role in the critical "hump yard" operations. The "hump"
is a big hill in the middle of a railroad yard where boxcars are put
together to build trains that can run a mile long or more. On the upside of
the hump is a track, and on the downside the track branches into a network
of tracks. A switch engine pushes a series of box cars up the side of the
hill and over the hump. The cars then are free-toll down the other side and
are guided to a specific track to join a train that's going to a specific
area. The conventional radio system connects the yard operator in the
control tower, the engineer on board the locomotive that's doing the shove,
and the person pulling the pin to release the cars as they come over the
hump. "This demands exact timing and constant communications," according to
Kemp. "This is another situation where conventional works perfectly for us."
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:10:21 -0500
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: For you railroad monitors...
> P RR to go Project 25 Digital Union Pacific Railroad owns and operates
> a
> conventional radio system that covers the 25 western states of the U.S.
Interesting... it just might prod me to get an Astro radio.. :)
I forsee years and years before CN or CP ever consider such a move,
much less the implementation stage...
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:39:31 -0500
From: "radio" <radio@slakeyourthirst.com>
Subject: Re: Opto Scout
My truck came with a built in scanner. I routinely monitor comms on 99.1 when in Toronto. Between 16:00 and 18:00 as well as other times they even have a phone patch setup. I've been told that once every pay period I contribute to the operations on that freq.
J.
"Just watch me." Pierre Elliot Trudeau 1970
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Fenech
To: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Scanont] Opto Scout
...Yes, Steve, you've stumbled across the FM
broadcast band.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:50:00 -0500
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Opto Scout
> Can some one give me some info, when I leave my Opto Scout on and
> sitting on the window sill it keeps locking onto frequencies in the
> 99.000 mhz band. Can some one tell me what this band is. I only have
> my duckie antenna on the Scout. ??
Oh c'mon Steve.... You've GOT to be kidding, right?
Let me give you a hint. 98.100 mHz. Call sign is CHFI. Location of
transmitter: CN Tower.
Toronto's Best Rock, Steve.
Sigh.
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:59:50 -0500
From: "Bob Lyle" <bob_lyle@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Re: Brantford
This was following every single transmission, no audio came through, and it
must have been causing a busy indication since the actual radio being tested
would come up with a voice check right afterwards. It went on like that for
the entire evening.
> I've seen that a lot with fire departments. Firemen (politically
> incorrect I know) have a problem with jumping in too quickly on
> transmissions, a habit from the VHF days.
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:50:53 -0000
From: "dave_scan1 <dharris@playground.net>" <dharris@playground.net>
Subject: Re: Brantford
--- In scanont@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Lyle" <bob_lyle@s...> wrote:
> This was following every single transmission, no audio came through,
and it
> must have been causing a busy indication since the actual radio
being tested
> would come up with a voice check right afterwards. It went on like
that for
> the entire evening.
Could this possibly be a mobile repeater being triggered?
>
> > I've seen that a lot with fire departments. Firemen (politically
> > incorrect I know)
Yes, that's how organized crime refers to arsonists....:)
Dave
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:06:04 -0500
From: Steve Jones <s.jones@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Brantford
on 2/16/03 6:23 PM, Bob Lyle at bob_lyle@sympatico.ca wrote:
> Brantford FD currently doing radio checks. Strange thing happening, it seems
> every time dispatch keys up or releases PTT, radio Id 0AFA keys right away.
> Makes seeing radio IDs nearly impossible, but the odd one gets through.
My guess would be a crossband radio repeating to/from vhf.
When dispatch keys up on vhf, the xband radio (0afa) keys up. If dispatch
is on 800Mhz, the tail of the vhf repeater causes the xband radio (0afa) to
key up briefly.
--
Steve <s.jones@rogers.com>
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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:30:17 -0800
From: "Terry Green" <ve3nsv@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Brantford
I did hear crossband linking when i was listening sunday on 00-027 i think, Paris fire got dispatched to a MVA downtown Paris and you could clearly tell it was crossbanded. I know all the services here in Kitchener where linked to the new Edacs system until everyone switched over so maybe that will help explain everything.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Jones
To: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Scanont] Brantford
on 2/16/03 6:23 PM, Bob Lyle at bob_lyle@sympatico.ca wrote:
> Brantford FD currently doing radio checks. Strange thing happening, it seems
> every time dispatch keys up or releases PTT, radio Id 0AFA keys right away.
> Makes seeing radio IDs nearly impossible, but the odd one gets through.
My guess would be a crossband radio repeating to/from vhf.
When dispatch keys up on vhf, the xband radio (0afa) keys up. If dispatch
is on 800Mhz, the tail of the vhf repeater causes the xband radio (0afa) to
key up briefly.
--
Steve <s.jones@rogers.com>
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