From: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat Feb 15 2003 - 05:42:41 EST
Looking for trunked radio information?
Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 21 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: digital scanners
From: "SpongeBob <mycatisdumb@yahoo.com>" <mycatisdumb@yahoo.com>
2. Re: Re: digital scanners
From: "John H" <sudsyjkh@softhome.net>
3. What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: Paul Schmidt <pschmidt@interlog.com>
4. Re: Re: digital scanners
From: Paul Schmidt <pschmidt@interlog.com>
5. Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: "Mike Iszak" <mike@warpzone.ca>
6. Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
7. Re: Re: Action required: LDUD-5JGLTY - INFO.IC Enquiry
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
8. Re: Re: digital scanners
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
9. Digital Scanners
From: "David Reeves <david.reeves@sympatico.ca>" <david.reeves@sympatico.ca>
10. Re: Digital Scanners
From: "sjones2" <sjones2@mobile.rogers.com>
11. Re: digital scanners
From: "Marc Fitkin <marc022774@yahoo.com>" <marc022774@yahoo.com>
12. RE: Digital Scanners
From: "SJA" <sja505@rogers.com>
13. Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: "Mike Iszak" <mike@warpzone.ca>
14. RE: What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: "Chris's Newgroup Email" <group@irisreg.com>
15. Re: Digital Scanners
From: ted hay <tedh1@sympatico.ca>
16. Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
17. RE: What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: "Chris's Newgroup Email" <group@irisreg.com>
18. Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
From: "Terry Green" <ve3nsv@rogers.com>
19. Re: Re: digital scanners
From: "R.S. (Bob) Heuman" <rsh@idirect.com>
20. Feature article on the Detroit / Windsor, ONT radio systems!
From: Ron Wilbanks <NYC6000@ameritech.net>
21. [TrunkCom] Feature article on the Detroit / Windsor, ONT radio systems!
From: Ron Wilbanks <NYC6000@ameritech.net>
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 03:58:52 -0000
From: "SpongeBob <mycatisdumb@yahoo.com>" <mycatisdumb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: digital scanners
I wasn't waiting. I think you have me confused with the other
Spongebob, that was my first post here.
There is a TAC on the paperwork given by Radioworld with the purchase
of the unit, one for the 250, a different one for the 785. The board
is merely an accessory and requires no additional paperwork. Although
I do plan to license it, honestly, we all know nothing will be done
if I don't.
And to Mr. Hylands rant about are licensed amateur radio operators
being more responsible etc... I think yes, I have the drive to study
and take an exam, rather than sit back and do nothing . I made the
effort to gain a privilege.
Certainly easier to pass these days than when I was first licensed,
but an effort is required. Those who work toward achieving their
goals such as this license, do tend to be somewhat more responsible,
and yes i am generalizing.
It's easy now, anyone can do it, just make an effort. I am not trying
to start a flame war, but I believe the answer to your question is
YES.
> I thought you were waiting ;) So are you suggesting that your 250
has a TAC?
>
> J.
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:40:59 -0500
From: "John H" <sudsyjkh@softhome.net>
Subject: Re: Re: digital scanners
does the unit work for the OPP? and how well?
----- Original Message -----
From: "radio" <radio@slakeyourthirst.com>
To: <scanont@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Scanont] Re: digital scanners
> I thought you were waiting ;) So are you suggesting that your 250 has a
TAC?
>
> J.
>
> "Just watch me." Pierre Elliot Trudeau 1970
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SpongeBob <mycatisdumb@yahoo.com>
> To: scanont@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 20:08 PM
> Subject: [Scanont] Re: digital scanners
>
>
> ....I now have a BC-250D AND (<--- keyword!) the digital card.
> I am a licensed amateur radio operator, so I meet IC's criteria of
> who may purchase the unit. I bought them at Radioworld, licensing the
> radio is my responsibility AFTER the sale.
>
> Both the 785 and 250 are both APPROVED by IC and can be sold with or
> without the digital card.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Looking for trunked radio information?
> Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:06:51 -0500
From: Paul Schmidt <pschmidt@interlog.com>
Subject: What's a Discriminator Tap?
File this under dumb question of the year, but what in Haddes is a
Discriminator Tap?
Okay more questions, related
Can it be done to a Uniden BC860XLT, and anyone know how?
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:55:47 -0500
From: Paul Schmidt <pschmidt@interlog.com>
Subject: Re: Re: digital scanners
On February 13, 2003 11:33 pm, Bryan wrote:
> > I too have been involved with scanners, marine vhf and
> > other radio comms for well over thirty years. Not having > a ticket does
> > not mean that one cannot be a responsible, > intelligent radio hobbyist.
> > Well said Randy!
>
> Alright alright alright. Before we wheel out the good ole' "Scanont Wagon
> of Overreaction", why don't we see what happens before we unleash our
> collective rage against Industry Canada.
>
> I'm sure that we'll all get our chance to piss $1500 away for this new
> scanner soon enough... don't worry everyone. Big business certainly isn't
> going to stand for such a senseless restriction as "only Hams can buy it".
>
> IC didn't legalize FRS because it warmed their hearts. Think about that.
>
I think you have a point here, nobody else has thought, what are Uniden and
other scanner manufacturers doing about this? Don't say nothing, no company
intentionally throws away sales. If 5000 people were willing to buy one of
these new scanners, maybe 50 would be willing to go to the US to get one, and
break the law to operate it. Maybe another 200 with ham licences will be
willing to go through the licence process, maybe 50 will go through the
process of getting a ham licence AND a digital licence. Okay so that's 300
out of 5000. Even in a smaller market like Canada, what company wants to
throw away over 90% of the potential sales? Figure that Uniden and others
are probably lobbying IC to get this little problem fixed.
do you think the people who distribute Uniden scanners in Canada want to lose
sales, even to Uniden's US distributor. The whole thing will get cleared
up, when the right person makes the right contribution to the right
politicians re-election fund.
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:42:27 -0500
From: "Mike Iszak" <mike@warpzone.ca>
Subject: Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
Looking around the internet, I found this link:
http://www.trunkedradio.net/digital/discrim.txt
It gives you a pretty good descrption, as well as a pretty good list of
scanners and how to get discriminator audio from them.
M
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:46:45 -0500
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
> File this under dumb question of the year, but what in Haddes is a
> Discriminator Tap?
Its a way of getting pure, unprocessed audio out of your scanner. If
you're doing data decoding with your scanner (running trunker, decoding
(urk!) pagers, etc) you need a discriminator tap. The audio
amplification and processing circuits in your scanner don't provide a
clean enough signal for your computer (through a device called a data
slicer) to work with. You need to hook an audio jack to a certain pin
on a certain chip in your scanner to get the needed audio.
Hope that helps
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:50:08 -0500
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Action required: LDUD-5JGLTY - INFO.IC Enquiry
> <big snip>
>
> What's the big deal? Just go buy the scanner and enjoy quietly.
>
> If IC relaxes the rules, there will be thousands of them sold and that
> will
> give certain agencies a reason to encrypt. Then you'll really have
> something to bitch about.
Amen brother.
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:01:32 -0500
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Re: digital scanners
> Even in a smaller market like Canada, what company wants to
> throw away over 90% of the potential sales? Figure that Uniden and
> others
> are probably lobbying IC to get this little problem fixed
If big business got FRS legalized, a radio service that had the
potential of walking on thousands of paying radio license holders just
so mommy and daddy can talk to little Johnny at the playground (as well
as allowing hundreds of people to press the damn call button endlessly,
I think approving digital scanners is no small feat - especially when
other companies other than Uniden get on board (GRE/Radio Shack have
one in the works, and I believe AOR have a card for their radios)
Some people on here seem to be itching for a fight about it - and it
does nothing but clutter the inbox. JUST RELAX EVERYONE! This kind of
stuff doesn't happen overnight. People are going on and on about vague
regulations and lack of response from IC - the whole purpose of
Industry Canada isn't approving digital scanners. I'm sure with all the
crap going on these days in the wide range of departments under IC,
approving digital scanners is probably WAY DOWN on their list (we deal
with IC at my work quite a bit).
Just everyone sit back, relax, and try to keep the urges to listen to
the OPP down a little until the powers that be get it sorted out. I
don't mean to come off on a rant here but its getting a little nuts on
here. You'd think civil liberties were at stake here.
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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:59:33 -0000
From: "David Reeves <david.reeves@sympatico.ca>" <david.reeves@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Digital Scanners
Hi all;
Here's my rant about "digital scanners". The 250 and 785 are not
stand-alone digital scanners, but somehow are being lumped into that
legislation. Without the digital card they cannot receive digitally
encoded transmissions. They should be approved by IC as normal
scanners and sold as such.
To buy the digital card one should have to get a licence.
Radioworld, who appears to be the only Canadian company selling the
scanner is equally responsible for this improper labeling. I should
be able to buy the scanner as normally as I would any other "receive
only" radio. It's about time this farce was ended and the 250 and 785
be called what they really are; "digital capable scanners" and not
"digital scanners".
I also feel that the regulation was written wrongly. Its' intent was
probably to protect "encrypted radio transmissions" and "for profit
broadcast transmissions". After all, I have a shortwave radio capable
of receiving "digital transmissions", namely telegraphy and RTTY.
Dave Reeves
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:08:48 -0400
From: "sjones2" <sjones2@mobile.rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scanners
My belief is the act was written to protect digital cellphones.
Its now being used to provide public services with the belief that they are now unmonitorable
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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:07:15 -0000
From: "Marc Fitkin <marc022774@yahoo.com>" <marc022774@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: digital scanners
> If big business got FRS legalized, a radio service that had the
> potential of walking on thousands of paying radio license holders
just
> so mommy and daddy can talk to little Johnny at the playground (as
well
> as allowing hundreds of people to press the damn call button
endlessly,
Mommy and daddy gave little Johnny an FRS because they think it would
be a cool toy for Johnny. Now Johnny pages all the time. They are
not toys. If Johnny wants a "walkie-talkie-cheaky", buy those
garbage 49 Mhz or a baby monitor and stuff Johnny in the big tires at
the playground (if Johnny likes naughty language buy him a 40 channel
CB). Still, it aint CB......YET!
>JUST RELAX EVERYONE!
Amen. This is the government we're talking about. Eventually these
will become available.
Marc
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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:33:26 -0500
From: "SJA" <sja505@rogers.com>
Subject: RE: Digital Scanners
Here's a thought for you guys (sorry, and gals)...
What would happen if someone came up with a card that you could somehow
attach to a trunk tracking scanner, or maybe a software program that
could decode digital signals off of a discriminator point, etc. etc...
Would that make your 5-year old Radio Shack Trunk Tracker II a "digital
scanner"? Would the IC task force swoop down your chimney with assault
rifles and search warrants in hand to confiscate your "illegal" snooping
devices?
For those of us who live in Durham Region, it's a mute point anyway...
are these things going to decode their Clearnet radios?
...just my 2 cents' worth...
Todd
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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:40:32 -0500
From: "Mike Iszak" <mike@warpzone.ca>
Subject: Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
Well, the way a radio receiver works...
Your scanner is set to receive a given frequency. The detector will receive
this RF frequency, after passing through an amplifier, IF section, etc...
Once the audio is removed from the signal, it is passed through a filter
section that gives audio "character". That is, it removes high and low
frequencies that aren't associated with voice, as well as making the audio
more pleasant to listen to. After this filter seciton, it's passed to a
squelch circuit so you don't hear white noise all the time.
What you hear from the speaker or earphone jack is filtered audio.
What a discriminator tap does is taps into this audio before it goes into
filters. It's also called baseband audio, or flat audio.
If you listen to flat audio, it's un-squelched, and sounds distinctivly
different.
If you want to run an application such as Trunker, decode MDT's, Pagers,
etc... You need to use this unfiltered flat audio, because the audio
filters strip off some of the audio required for your computer to decode the
digital signals.
As for taping it off of your scanner, there's a few good websites on this, I
can't remember the address, but I know some have been posted on the group
before. Try searching for "discriminator audio".
Mike
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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:49:32 -0500
From: "Chris's Newgroup Email" <group@irisreg.com>
Subject: RE: What's a Discriminator Tap?
A little off topic,
But can you receive MDT's in the GTA area? About the only thing I use
with my tap is Trunker and paging (Ambulance mainly). Am I missing out
on anything.
Thanks
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Iszak [mailto:mike@warpzone.ca]
Sent: February 14, 2003 10:41 AM
To: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Scanont] What's a Discriminator Tap?
Well, the way a radio receiver works...
Your scanner is set to receive a given frequency. The detector will
receive this RF frequency, after passing through an amplifier, IF
section, etc... Once the audio is removed from the signal, it is passed
through a filter section that gives audio "character". That is, it
removes high and low frequencies that aren't associated with voice, as
well as making the audio more pleasant to listen to. After this filter
seciton, it's passed to a squelch circuit so you don't hear white noise
all the time.
What you hear from the speaker or earphone jack is filtered audio.
What a discriminator tap does is taps into this audio before it goes
into filters. It's also called baseband audio, or flat audio.
If you listen to flat audio, it's un-squelched, and sounds distinctivly
different.
If you want to run an application such as Trunker, decode MDT's, Pagers,
etc... You need to use this unfiltered flat audio, because the audio
filters strip off some of the audio required for your computer to decode
the digital signals.
As for taping it off of your scanner, there's a few good websites on
this, I can't remember the address, but I know some have been posted on
the group before. Try searching for "discriminator audio".
Mike
Looking for trunked radio information?
Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:17:09 -0500
From: ted hay <tedh1@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Digital Scanners
SJA wrote:
>
> Here's a thought for you guys (sorry, and gals)...
>
> What would happen if someone came up with a card that you could somehow
> attach to a trunk tracking scanner, or maybe a software program that
> could decode digital signals off of a discriminator point, etc. etc...
>
AOR has already demonstrated such a device so I'm told at Dayton Hamvention last
year. Was supposed to be available before now but nothing meets the salesman
overly optimistic targets. They actually use the 10.7 mhz IF output of
receivers that have them. Its called a software radio.
Ted
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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:55:34 -0500
From: Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
> But can you receive MDT's in the GTA area? About the only thing I use
> with my tap is Trunker and paging (Ambulance mainly). Am I missing out
> on anything.
Not anything like Police MWS or anything of that sort.
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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:39:12 -0500
From: "Chris's Newgroup Email" <group@irisreg.com>
Subject: RE: What's a Discriminator Tap?
I figured that would be impossible because they use TCP/IP. What about
FedEx or cabs and the like. Any software suggestions as well?
Thanks
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan [mailto:bryanpass@rogers.com]
Sent: February 14, 2003 8:56 PM
To: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Scanont] What's a Discriminator Tap?
> But can you receive MDT's in the GTA area? About the only thing I use
> with my tap is Trunker and paging (Ambulance mainly). Am I missing
out
> on anything.
Not anything like Police MWS or anything of that sort.
Looking for trunked radio information?
Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:03:25 -0800
From: "Terry Green" <ve3nsv@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: What's a Discriminator Tap?
How about WRPD here in Kitchener? I think they still use really old MDT's, looks like the computers we use to use in public school.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris's Newgroup Email
To: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 6:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Scanont] What's a Discriminator Tap?
I figured that would be impossible because they use TCP/IP. What about
FedEx or cabs and the like. Any software suggestions as well?
Thanks
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan [mailto:bryanpass@rogers.com]
Sent: February 14, 2003 8:56 PM
To: scanont@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Scanont] What's a Discriminator Tap?
> But can you receive MDT's in the GTA area? About the only thing I use
> with my tap is Trunker and paging (Ambulance mainly). Am I missing
out
> on anything.
Not anything like Police MWS or anything of that sort.
Looking for trunked radio information?
Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Looking for trunked radio information?
Try http://www.trunkedradio.net.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003
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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:48:30 -0500
From: "R.S. (Bob) Heuman" <rsh@idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Re: digital scanners
On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:01:32 -0500, Bryan <bryanpass@rogers.com> wrote:
>I
>don't mean to come off on a rant here but its getting a little nuts on
>here. You'd think civil liberties were at stake here.
Opinion...
In the view of some of us, they are at stake here!
Those of us who believe they are view it as our right to oversee/overlisten
to the police and other agencies when they are communicating and do NOT need
encryption [eg not a raid in the works] which is most of the time. We
believe that we are their ultimate employers and the ones who pay their
salaries!
Remember all of the messages you get when you dial in to companies and get
their service or help desks that say... "this conversation might be taped...
to provide better service..."? Well, we are in effect the tape with our
scanners, we try to ensure they DO provide better service, and as their
employers, ultimately, we need and should have the right of ANY employer to
tape/listen. This IS a civil liberty in my view, and it IS at stake until
such time as IPC 2-1-04 is replaced by something that is less than 7 years
old and which removes those rather [in my view] assinine conditions for
qualifying for a license.
Note that I am over 60 and do NOT want to go out and get a ham license
[although I suspect I could without difficulty], when I've been using and
building RECEIVERS since the 1950s and have NEVER once wanted to broadcast,
so never needed a HAM license for anything else. I also totally fail to see
how being a HAM better qualifies anyone to LISTEN to a radio. I have
listened to both amateur and public shortwave since the time of the Berlin
Blockade without ever having a HAM license... and fail to see how such a
license makes me a better or more responsible listener.
Bob
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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:36:48 -0500
From: Ron Wilbanks <NYC6000@ameritech.net>
Subject: Feature article on the Detroit / Windsor, ONT radio systems!
Read it here:
http://iwce-mrt.com/ar/radio_detroit_windsor_tale/
73's
Ron
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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:36:48 -0500
From: Ron Wilbanks <NYC6000@ameritech.net>
Subject: [TrunkCom] Feature article on the Detroit / Windsor, ONT radio systems!
Read it here:
http://iwce-mrt.com/ar/radio_detroit_windsor_tale/
73's
Ron
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